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Post by Baked_Bean on Jul 19, 2011 1:01:18 GMT -5
Any thoughts people? I'm currently talking with the esteemed Mr. Haslam himself regarding the possibility of working on DC1...any thoughts for improvements? My biggest hope is that maybe we can bring out a new version all together...maybe call it DC 1.5 or something. I don't want to get rid of the old version (i.e. have a full reset) but then again, i don't think any amount of new areas/weapons/monsters can fix the fundamental problem - there is too much hacked stuff around, and either new weapons will be useless (if they aren't as good as current stuff) or they will make current items obselete (like SACs did) and i'm not a fan of either really. I would like to see a pre-azteca version of the game released and have no weapon rust, and then maybe add on some more areas with weapons that are more balanced than the azteca ones were. Oh, and maybe get rid of the Dragon Guard stuff? CGBs and DSJs are way too good too i think... But anyway, thoughts? Improvements? Suggestions? Let me know
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Post by King_Smitty on Jul 19, 2011 2:51:03 GMT -5
i like that approach, as much as i like DC1, there are some flaws. There should be some way to keep old characters, some of us have been working on them for some time, a full reset would be way too much to handle. Perhaps make a new realm with new areas monsters weapons etc, increase the level cap so this new realm would be for players lvl 30 and greater, where monsters are tougher and drop more xp.... I believe weapon rust should be removed, thats just unneccesary tbh. the weapons would have to be leveled.
I was thinking something cool would be to specialize in new classes where guild skills have a larger role, ex: fighter class would get bonuses to attack and mage to mezzing, etc. where each level in new class would provide extra guild skills with the cooresponding one (fighter with fighter skills).
It would be interesting to code such a thing, perhaps you would have character level, and various class levels, where succeeding in using guild skills would give you xp in that class.
like 1000 successful berserks gives you enough fighter class exp to become a level 1 fighter, and have an class xp progression that would make being level 20 fighter very impressive, after a while you could really get some good leveling going on, and if theres new areas with tougher baddies, it could make specializing important, and certain areas hard if your mage skill was too low or something.
with saying that the level cap increases and more xp from baddies, being a level 60 character with 20 levels of fighter, the amount of xp needed to progress to that next level would still be insane if it followed the same progression as now. Though if we were able to focus on leveling our classes, it would make getting to those higher levels not as mundane. Achieving a new class level would be something you'd be proud of.
if each level of that class gives you like +10 to that corresponding stat, you have a new class to hone your skills. Focusing on increasing your class levels would make replay much more exciting and fresh, especially if you get to keep your old character. Focus on keeping our old characters.
I would still love to see DC1 stay alive, but maybe if there was a realm on the other side of the mountains, maybe ruled by someone other than the queen!! a dark and scary place with angry monsters that would for you to fight for your life!!! exiting the game in that realm you would have to still wake up in that realm the next day, the more i think about what im typing the more i think this would be a HUGE update. lol
just an idea or two
EDIT:: upon further review, when i say increase the level cap, i mean increase xp drops for the new monsters, because getting to level 50 and up takes an retarded amount of time
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Bre'Cheye
Honored Warrior
HW5
ussta zhennu ventash'ma zhah ussta zhennu abbil... My Great Leader is my Great Friend!
Posts: 8,369
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Post by Bre'Cheye on Jul 19, 2011 14:49:24 GMT -5
Is it too wishful or wrong to have the mail to get there quicker? Or endless quests? The only other game I've ever played that involved "killing" dragons, skeletons and other monsters was the short time I played Everquest online. Which with that, it seems they are always coming out with new expansions... new areas, new weapons, new level cap. IF there were more quests per "DC day" maybe that might be better than endless quests. But harder monsters are indeed needed.
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Post by Gawayn on Jul 19, 2011 22:44:33 GMT -5
I think we need to keep the structure similar - otherwise it'd just be writing a whole new game, and it wouldn't be DC anymore (sorry Smitty, what you were saying just seemed too huge ). I like a great many aspects of the game as it is, personally, and would advocate more for expansion than a complete retooling. The question is, how? One way is to make new areas harder, face new monsters, drop new items - all involving bigger numbers of experience, fame, weapon strength, etc. The other way is to reconfigure how the game is played - create more difficult tasks/quests, something. That's what we've got to figure out, I think. What would be a neat challenge, how could the game change, without negating the efforts and rewards of people? Do we have the game become bigger, or more complex? Those seem to be the two options that jump out at me. There are probably more. I understand the fear of hacking...but I wonder, are there enough people playing DC anymore for hacking to be a worthwhile issue? I'd imagine most hackers worth their salt nowadays would be trying to break into WOW or something... I do agree that rusting needs to stop, and a great many Dragon Guard quests need to go.
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Post by King_Smitty on Jul 19, 2011 22:49:19 GMT -5
the key is to make the update enticing enough to draw in new players, otherwise the update would only benefit mainly us veterans
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Post by Baked_Bean on Jul 19, 2011 23:23:21 GMT -5
An idea i had, and i know this may sound very contraversial, was to somehow prevent tiques from being useable. Not remove them from the game, but make it so they can't be worn anymore. Anyway, that's not something that will happen straight away, if ever...just something to think about As for the upgrade directions...i'm more in favour of making it bigger than more complex. The danger with making it more complex is that we might lose the simplicity which makes the game awesome. I think the first priority is balencing out the existing weapons in the game...right now, there are very few viable weapon sets and i would like to see that change. Whether that is a case of retiring some of the current superweapons, or downgrading their stats, or perhaps increase the stats of some other existing weapons (such as SM, SG, SK, MLR, Kouts, Helms etc.) to make them more viable. Once we're happy with everything in the current game, we can look at adding some more areas. Apparently Fred has some artwork and some partial coding already sorted for another area, he just never got round to actually implementing it. At some point in the next few weeks, Fred will get the DC1 Test server up and running again and then we can start looking at some possible ideas. I have a feeling DC test might be getting more interesting over the next few months!
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Post by King_Smitty on Jul 20, 2011 0:54:51 GMT -5
sweet, i've always loved DC test!! true on less complexity the better, im just sayin! haha
i agree to make the existing weapons more balanced, i wouldnt want anything downgraded, perhaps make the ones that are weaker increase the bases of their stats, and if new weapons would be created, have them be about the same level as the azteca ones, nothing that would be so high as to make even them obsolete, maybe allow items to be of the Golden category too?
to get rid of tiques would be interesting i'd think. Though the fact that theyve been around for so long, it would be devastating to make them unusable, a lot of fortunes have been made and spent for aquiring tiques. i would keep them, as they are more like heirlooms (that are pretty powerful)
oh and blast! i always forget about that, blast is a sweet rare, but it is worthless on some items, maybe if it adds the 120 damage to any attack with the weapon?
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Post by Baked_Bean on Jul 20, 2011 2:18:17 GMT -5
I like that as a use for blast. Problem is, tiques are just too good...whatever items we brought in wouldn't touch decent tiques no matter how good they were
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Post by King_Smitty on Jul 20, 2011 3:40:40 GMT -5
Why we shouldnt delete tiques:
I do agree that tiques are the end all for DC gear, but they arent that big of a thing! Most sales on TP are not for tiques, ive noticed most trades are for strong DSJ and strong SAC's CJF's CG's CSB's and all sorts of other quality non-tique silvers and crystals. they are ultimately for long time veterans, since they sell for a large price you must be around for a while to amass such wealth. I know with my suit, 31ad SH 208d DSJ 118d CSB 224a SAC 120a CG i do not have much trouble, sometimes i die verses the dragon but usually not, so i do not need any tiques, which is why most players who do not own tiques would probably love to have a set, but are happy with their strong SAC they just traded someone for or found a long the way. i would even judge tiques as more of a collectors item. If you trade your way with enough items to purchase a tique from somebody, you deserve to keep it and not have it just disappear.
why we need Golden weapons
Since silver weapons are x2 reg counterparts and Crystals are x3, golden weapons do not have to be x4, what about x6? x8? In order to make this big of an increase viable, make the drop rates for crystals and silvers more frequent, and have the golden items drop at the same or at a VERY slightly slower pace than crystals drop now, this way more players can get a hold of strong crystals and silvers, and occasionally a sweet golden weapon (and if theres more drops, then its easier to aquire enough capital to buy a tique, thus making them less valuable). If you go that route though, it might be prudent to remove some crystals or silvers of an item, like when silver jag fangs were removed from drops making for less material to randomly drop. this would simultaneously allow collectors to have an item to buy up too!
i did some calculations to show you from base to golden (X8 of reg), jaguar fangs.
Base Reg Jag Fang : +15a/+30d/-15s roughly es to +24a/+39d/+75s Base Silver Jag Fang : +30a/+60d/-30s +48a/+78d/+150s Base Crystal Jag Fang: +45a/+90d/-45s +72a/+117d/+225s Base Golden Jag Fang: +120a/+240d/-120s +192a/+312d/+600s 2.0 tier Gold Jag Fang: +240a/+480d/-240s +384a/+624d/+1200s 3 tier Golden Jag Fang: +360a/+720d/-360s +576a/+936d/+1800s
Sure they cant touch the highest of tiques, but this makes the lesser and baby tiques just about average.
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Post by Ninja Dathron on Jul 20, 2011 7:21:25 GMT -5
Why not to keep tiques: Sure, they're not clogging the trade market. And they're mostly just keepsakes. But if they're just collectables anyway, Bean might as well do what he was suggesting and just making them unwearable. They don't disappear, they're still there, but they just can't be worn. The reason I don't like tiques is not that they are the only way to kill the dragon or anything, but because things like the skill list are totally useless without them. Unless you have a tique suit you have no chance of getting top 12, and even top 24 is definitely not at all easy. Making tiques unwearable makes the skill list MUCH more interesting; suddenly everyone is focusing on their wits and charm to add just a little more skill, really working hard to upgrade their main suit, etc. Also, tiques are this sort of unattainable holy grail for newbies, which may sound good, until you realize it's really just false hope they have, mostly. Either there are tiny little tiques, like my 156s cap, on the market, or its a huge tique that only players with a HUGE collection or with big tiques of their own have any real chance (sir's kout for example). There are no more midrange tiques. There used to be, then some oldies collected a bunch and disappeared, and now only come back to bid on the big tiques. Tiques are only viable if there are about 3x more of them, and even then, they are just so rare that there is little incentive to trade them for anything other than bigger tiques. If you make them unwearable, the awe factor of tiques goes down for new players, they can focus on their reg suit and actually have a chance at the skill lists, and old players still get to look at the tiques they bought. If old players are seriously going to freak out even if their tiques are just unusable, then they weren't seriously playing much anyway. As you said, a decent reg suit kills everything, wearing the tiques is just a source of false pride. You can still have your tiques, just can't wear them. Gold items are intriguing, but as Bean said, balancing really needs to happen before more items are introduced. Personally, I want to try and focus only on items that currently exist, to see how strong of a game we can make out of what's already there, before we add more. Oh, and another possibility for Gold: personally I would either make them VERY high level requirements, like level 40 or even 42, so that you still have to really quest to wear them, OR make most Gold weapons be low-level ones so that they don't dominate. The worry I have with Gold weapons is that they basically become slightly better than tiques; again something you really need to be on the skill lists or whatever, but really really really hard for someone to get. Personally, while I like the idea of having things being challenging, I think the skill lists need to be a little less difficult to reach then that. Even getting an all Gold suit would take at least a year, which is a long time for a new player. We want new players to see lists like the skill list, and feel that with some hard work they can make it there. I don't really want those to be nearly untouchable. And with the idea of having Gold weapons only drop for lower-level items, that makes them a collectors item and AWESOME mid-level items, but nothing that'll definitely knock out the current silvers/crystals in rotation. That's another worry for me; we've got SACs, tons of viable lefties and such; Golds would lessen the value of those as anything but trading items for more Golds. Would wreck any balancing of the current stuff we'd try to do. Having like a Gold Mystic Staff would be SO awesome though. a 150a/150d/150s base R/L weapon, maybe with 2.0 tier being 300a/300d/300s?! That would ROCK! Would increase the questing of the Dungeon EXPONENTIALLY, would actually be usable even for higher players at high tiers, and would look freaking AWESOME. GMS, a Gold Terror Rod (which can't just be 6x or anything, its gotta seriously change a bit ), a Gold Unicorn Horn, etc. I would be on board with that.
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Post by Baked_Bean on Jul 20, 2011 7:32:57 GMT -5
I'm loving all the idea flying around here...lets keep the input coming. I'm not going to be able to start working on this for a least a few weeks as Fred is doing some server maintainance/transfer, so we have plenty of time to get thinking about what we want to see in a new version.
Also, don't worry if you really don't like an idea. Just post up your opinions, we won't be making wholesale changes to stuff without the full backing of the community, and even then we'll get it up on DC Test so we can make sure it all works before we even think about rolling out anything on the main server.
Ahhhh i'm so excited about all of this!
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Post by King_Smitty on Jul 20, 2011 8:36:06 GMT -5
excitement doesnt even cover it
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Post by Gawayn on Jul 20, 2011 9:29:42 GMT -5
Here here! ;D The argument to make tiques unuseable makes sense to me. I have one or two - and guess what? I don't use them, they're just sitting collecting dust. Any changes to the game we make, whether its balancing current weapons (good idea) or adding new ones/new kinds will upset some veterans. Then again, I imagine people who'd spent a long time collecting silvers back in the day were annoyed to see that their efforts were overshadowed by the introduction of crystals. I think this is a good thing. If I had some sweet premium gear and suddenly better options were introduced, I'd be more motivated to GET those better items, just like everyone else. Complacency can be a real killer with this game, so a way to motivate the old timers is a good thing.
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dingy
W&W Veteran
Posts: 610
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Post by dingy on Jul 20, 2011 11:09:00 GMT -5
i can see where people are coming from in regards to tiques, but at the same time i've spent the past 4+ years working on my suit. i use my suit everyday when i quest and i have a problem with the idea of just watching those items sit in stash and not be useable. while people traded nice silvers/crystals for bigger ones, i used mine to buy small tiques. then i used nice silvers/crystals and my small tiques to buy larger ones when the occasion arose. it just seems like this would punish me for playing the game one way (buying tiques), but it wouldn't punish john doe for playing it a different way (buying bigger silvers/crystals).
"If old players are seriously going to freak out even if their tiques are just unusable, then they weren't seriously playing much anyway. As you said, a decent reg suit kills everything, wearing the tiques is just a source of false pride."
sorry to break it to you dath, i play my main everyday and i would freak out. you can call it false pride, selfishness, etc and so forth, but i quested alot and traded alot to gain those. i don't want to not be able to use them. yes a decent reg suit kills everything, but i could run around and kill everything in game with my hands too. doesn't mean i want to do it.
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Post by Ninja Dathron on Jul 20, 2011 11:22:16 GMT -5
I understand, Dingy. Gawayn is right though that anything we do will upset someone...if tiques change, tique players will be mad. If tique players are boosted, reg gear players will be mad. If we get rid of an item, even a small one, some collector will get annoyed. The question then is to decide what to do, knowing that we can't possibly please everyone. And it's just right now I see a VERY small percentage of players with tiques, trading for tiques, etc. And a large majority playing with reg suits, questing and trading for reg gear, so it seems like tiques are an obvious issue that could be resolved.
At the very, very least, I would make it so chars with tiques don't show up on the skill list somehow, and make it that tiques can't be mailed. That cuts them off to just the players who like them, who own them already. You can still wear them, you can still have that big skill number on your page, but it doesn't tilt the skill list in favor of a very, very select few, and takes away the need to try and all trade up for tiques by making them like kookies, where you can't send them. Would that work? I'm honestly just trying to figure out what it is about tiques that is so attractive; there's gotta be a compromise.
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